Action 2 query (grovelling to Michael Blunk)

[Ronnie Clark]

I'm struggling with trying to implement something which I think should is
possible - changing the graphics for the train engine depending on what
cargo is in the consist. I've tried this Action 2, and I'll explain what I
think it should be doing.

02 00 04 82 42 08 FF 02 00 00 00 00 01 00 02 02 02 00

02 00 - Action 2, for trains.
04 - Defining cargo-ID 04.
82 42 - Deterministic graphics based on whole-train consist.

Now, property 42 is supposed to return 0000cctt. I'm interested in the
common cargo, so I then right-shift by 8 bits. I'm not sure if this is the
correct amount to shift, but I've tried lots of different amounts and none
have worked.

08 FF - Right shift by 8 bits and AND with FF.
02 - 2 variations

(00 00) (00 00) - Use cargo-ID 00 if common cargo = passengers.
(01 00) (02 02) - Use cargo-ID 01 if common cargo = mail.
(02 00) - Default cargo ID.

I've given up working out why it isn't working. The engine ends up with
cargo-ID 00 no matter what cargo is behind it....

Any help? Am I trying to do something which is impossible?

Ronnie
--
Volunteer guard on the Great Central Railway, Loughborough, Leicestershire
Visit the world's only double track preserved steam railway!
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk

[Michael Blunck]

Ronnie Clark wrote:

[var 42 - consist cargo]

Post by Ronnie Clark
02 00 04 82 42 08 FF 02 00 00 00 00 01 00 02 02 02 00

[...]

Post by Ronnie Clark
I've given up working out why it isn't working. The engine ends up
with cargo-ID 00 no matter what cargo is behind it....
Any help? Am I trying to do something which is impossible?

Mmh. Seems to be correct as far as I can see here (although the test could be
shortened to 02 00 04 82 42 08 FF 01 00 00 00 02 00, possibly).

Maybe a bug in the patch? I never tested this feature for myself. Best thing
would be to make a *small* "test .grf" and send it to me or Josef.

Ah well, better send it to Josef, he had played far too much ... :)

regards
Michael

[Ronnie Clark]

Post by Michael Blunck
[var 42 - consist cargo]

Post by Ronnie Clark
02 00 04 82 42 08 FF 02 00 00 00 00 01 00 02 02 02 00

Mmh. Seems to be correct as far as I can see here (although the test could be
shortened to 02 00 04 82 42 08 FF 01 00 00 00 02 00, possibly).
Maybe a bug in the patch? I never tested this feature for myself. Best thing
would be to make a *small* "test .grf" and send it to me or Josef.

Doi. This is why I should upgrade more often. I was running Alpha 26 still,
but with a newer manual. It wasn't introduced until Alpha 27 :)

Works fine now. My freight trains have freight liveries locos, my mail
trains have mail liveried locos, and my passenger trains... Well, you can
guess :)

Ronnie
--
Volunteer guard on the Great Central Railway, Loughborough, Leicestershire
Visit the world's only double track preserved steam railway!
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk

[Afoklala]

Post by Ronnie Clark
Works fine now. My freight trains have freight liveries locos, my mail
trains have mail liveried locos, and my passenger trains... Well, you can
guess :)

Ooh, I'ld like to see that...

[Michael Blunck]

Post by Michael Blunck
[var 42 - consist cargo]

[...]

Post by Michael Blunck
Mmh. Seems to be correct as far as I can see here [...]

[...] I was running Alpha 26 still, but with a newer manual. [...]

Holy smoke! Couldn´t think of *that*. :)

Works fine now. My freight trains have freight liveries locos, my
mail trains have mail liveried locos, and my passenger trains...
Well, you can guess :)

Well, are they changing livery when you change wagons? Do you find that
realistic? I´d rather prefer to have a mechanism to choose between different
liveries when buying locomotives ...

regards
Michael

[Daan]

Post by Michael Blunck
[var 42 - consist cargo]

[...]
[snip]
Well, are they changing livery when you change wagons? Do you find that
realistic? I´d rather prefer to have a mechanism to choose between different
liveries when buying locomotives ...
regards
Michael

Well here in holland the NSR (dutch pasenger transporter :)) has yelow
versions of the 1600. Railon, a goods transporter painted the same
engines red. so in our case it is realistic :)

Daan

[Michael Blunck]

Daan wrote:

[automatic livery change depending on cargo]

Post by Daan

Post by Michael Blunck
Well, are they changing livery when you change wagons? Do you find that
realistic? I´d rather prefer to have a mechanism to choose between different
liveries when buying locomotives ...

Well here in holland the NSR (dutch pasenger transporter :)) has
yelow versions of the 1600. Railon, a goods transporter painted the
same engines red. so in our case it is realistic :)

Well, I didn´t point to the fact that it´s possible (and favourable) to have
different liveries according to a special service a locomotive is used for, but
rather to the fact that IMO it´s unrealistic to have those engines changing
livery *automatically* when de-coupling wagons type A and attaching wagons type
B in a depot.

I´m aware that there´s only few possibilities to get the desired effect, though
...

regards
Michael

[Afoklala]

Post by Michael Blunck
[automatic livery change depending on cargo]

Post by Daan

Post by Michael Blunck
Well, are they changing livery when you change wagons? Do you find that
realistic? I´d rather prefer to have a mechanism to choose between different
liveries when buying locomotives ...

Well here in holland the NSR (dutch pasenger transporter :)) has
yelow versions of the 1600. Railon, a goods transporter painted the
same engines red. so in our case it is realistic :)

Well, I didn´t point to the fact that it´s possible (and favourable) to have
different liveries according to a special service a locomotive is used for, but
rather to the fact that IMO it´s unrealistic to have those engines changing
livery *automatically* when de-coupling wagons type A and attaching wagons type
B in a depot.

Of course it isn't 'real life', but the alternative is that you have to
sell the engine and then buy a new one, with the same end result, only more
hassle. I'ld rather have the automatic method, or else you're left with a
long list of identical engines, which is kinda unpractical.
Also, how often are you going to change the service of a train? That's
rather rare, I think.
On the other side, I wonder how do engine behave when they have different
kinds of wagons attached to them?

[Michael Blunck]

Post by Afoklala

Post by Michael Blunck
[automatic livery change depending on cargo]
[...] IMO it´s unrealistic to have those engines changing livery
*automatically* when de-coupling wagons type A and attaching
wagons type B in a depot.

Of course it isn't 'real life', but the alternative is that you
have to sell the engine and then buy a new one, with the same end result,
only more hassle.

Well, it´ll depend on how you´re organizing your fleet. I know some people who
*never* sell stock which is pretty realistic, especially when there´s need to
transfer vehicles between different depots.

Post by Afoklala
I'ld rather have the automatic method, or else you're left with a
long list of identical engines, which is kinda unpractical.

Yeah, this would be *more* than impractical.

Post by Afoklala
Also, how often are you going to change the service of a train?
That's rather rare, I think.

Well, it depends ...

Post by Afoklala
On the other side, I wonder how do engine behave when they have
different kinds of wagons attached to them?

Frankly, I´d still have to test this out. According to the documentation you may
check for *all* of the cargo and *most* of the cargo ("most common cargo" -
whichever this means :), i.e. when checking for *all* cargo you´ll test a bit
field which represents all cargo available. In this way you could test the
availability of a specific cargo.

For testing of the "most common cargo type", Josef set up groups of cargo, i.e.
"town cargo" (goods, food, ..) or "bulk freight" (coal, grain, ore, fruit, ...)
or "piece goods" (...), or ...

In consequence, it should be possible to get a fair livery change by
implementing a well-chosen "cargo type" checker.

OTOH, for german railways this is a rather uncommon feature. Instead, dozens of
private railways w. own liveries are transporting cargo besides the DB, which -
BTW - is the case in most countries. Alas, you couldn´t change the name (action
4) when cargo, resp. livery has been changed, ...

.. it´s not such an easy decision, anyway.

Let´s see how Ronnie is going to handle this. :o)

regards
Michael

[Ronnie Clark]

.. itŽs not such an easy decision, anyway.
LetŽs see how Ronnie is going to handle this. :o)

I don't see why it's that difficult at all, really! Take the class 86. In
real life, they were built for passenger services on the West Coast Main
Line. They carried "Electric blue" livery, then "Rail blue". During the
"Rail blue" era, they started work on various high-speed freight services.
During sectorization, then, those that carried mail were put into "RES red",
freight ones into "Railfreight grey", and the passenger ones "Corporate
grey". They all stayed class 86, but they just got repainted depending what
they were carrying.

I suppose it's because Britain has generally always been strapped for cash
when it comes to spending on the railways, we just always hang onto our old
locos, putting them on whatever service is required, and giving them a paint
job to make them look new (ie, creating at least the IMPRESSION that money
has been spent, even though it hasn't!)

Ronnie
--
Volunteer guard on the Great Central Railway, Loughborough, Leicestershire
Visit the world's only double track preserved steam railway!
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk

[Ronnie Clark]

Post by Michael Blunck
Well, are they changing livery when you change wagons? Do you find that
realistic? IŽd rather prefer to have a mechanism to choose between

different

Post by Michael Blunck
liveries when buying locomotives ...

It's not particularly realistic (although more than you seem to think - over
here, when a loco switches duties it pretty much gets a new paint job to go
with it), but then nor are 101 other things to do with Transport Tycoon! At
least this way, locos which were / are painted in different liveries
depending on their job in real life can have the same liveries in the ame.

Ronnie
--
Volunteer guard on the Great Central Railway, Loughborough, Leicestershire
Visit the world's only double track preserved steam railway!
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk